Curse

arcanemacabre · Oct 02, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

*gasp* Could it be they want us to buy a copy and the truth might cause a few to not!?!?! =p

You don't say!

Thallandor · Oct 02, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Thallandor,

There isn't a "void" between needs and wants now. Anet has Collectors and greens that are either dirt cheap or very affordable. They are there for the "casual gamer" so he doesnt have to grind to get weapons with similar stats as the more hardcore player. Everyone yelling Yay! ... please consider the long term effects if the economy becomes only 2 classes. Either Anet will have to lower the bar even further for the (cough cough) casual gamer group or only the rich will have many of the titles and better armor. Those thinking this won't tank the economy haven't followed the Anet tweaks and the end results to well.

The game is to be released in less than a month ... Ms. Gray could throw us a bone on this topic. Anet knows how the system is supposed to work by now. *gasp* Could it be they want us to buy a copy and the truth might cause a few to not!?!?! =p

What i meant was the void of interest and goals rather the void btwn needs and wants, sorry if i had not been clear on that.

I too believe that its perhaps time for some official word on the matter.

Edit: ^arcanemacabre, i really like your guild tag. It seems to remind me to something tho..hmmmm....

sumrtym · Oct 02, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

I don't like this salvage idea at all. It will make these hours and hours people (including myself) have spent chest running / farming for that one amazing drop of req 8 15^50 completely wasted.

I really hope they don't do this, for real. But, if they do, it won't change the way I play. I'll just start farming for whites req 7 so I can mod them up =/

Exactly WHY this change needs to be implemented. Grinding 1000's of hours to get that low req skin you want is a pain in the butt. It's this idea that's actually been turning me OFF Guild Wars lately. I spend / waste more time trying to get the skin with the mods I want (try that on a shield you want some fun) then I do actually playing with my friends, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

If it becomes that much work to obtain the things you want when playing the game for your char, it ceases to be fun. After about my 300th deep run and still not getting a low req 15>50 zodiac axe, good zodiac shield, or even a decent zodiac staff / wand, I can tell ya...it's enough to start to say screw the game. And everyone else is out doing that rather than playing the game. Try to get help through a mission, etc, or talk about things game related in a major town. It's just continual WTS spam.

End the madness. It's flawed, If you wasted a bunch of time cause now it's going to be easier for people to get what they wanted, then so be it. I'm not still crying about my HOD sword, or the fact in Prophecies I didn't get xp capping elites, etc. It's a positive change, and in the end, enhances the game. You want to farm for that perfect drop? No one is stopping you...keep doing it like you always did, without using the new salvage options.

BTW, between the costs of skills in Nightfall, which looks to be handled the same as Factions from the preview, and up to 12 heros or so per character (that's 8-9 chars if you bought all chapters and this pre-order), that's 96 to 100+ people to equip, unless you enjoy forever juggling equipment back and forth on the accounts every time you want to just pick a toon and go. This is an obviously NEEDED change, despite whatever fake wealth preservers think. The costs / demand / time involved for most anyone starting this game is rediculous to get top items (and by that I mean any non-collector / crafter) under the current system looking at those statistics.

KurtTheBehemoth · Oct 02, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Ok here's my 2 cents,

The PC gamer article is very clear and leaves little doubt about what it means. Now this information could very well be false, but the article was definitely written with the assistance of Arena Net. So, now lets analyze this information and use it to our advantage.

Possibilities:
1. everything will be salvageable from weapons
2. collectors weapons will drop in price.

Ok, now that we know what might happen we treat this like any other gamble. I am a poker player and this looks like a hand I once had. Everyone else folded after the flop so it was heads up and I had the low straight. Pot odds were good and the other guy was betting big. I was in good position but it just didn't feel right. The way the guys tells were all saying he had the high straight. I decided take the risk because I didn't want to throw away my straight. Well guess what. He had a boat. I should have listened to my instincts about the guys tells.

Whatever you want to believe about this information is worthless. Treat this article in the PC Gamer magazine as if it were fact and you can't lose.

1. Sell all your rare weapons now!
2. Hold onto all those worthless weapons with good mods!
3. Concentrate your farming on materials!

If you do these three things you can't possibly lose any money. If the update was false then those weapons you sold will be unaffected pricewise. You can just buy some different rares after nightfall comes out. materials will almost assuredly go up in price. Those collectors weapons are locking up cash that could be invested. Double that money and purchase double the collectors weapons after release of nightfall.

If you decide to try and hope for the best you are only setting yourself up for failure. If and when this update goes into effect, prices will plummet. You might lose a lot of net worth.

I understand a lot of you have grown attached to these weapons. But they are locking up a lot of liquid wealth that could go towards sound investments.

MY COLLECTORS ITEM IS GOLD, AND LOTS OF IT,

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Exactly WHY this change needs to be implemented. Grinding 1000's of hours to get that low req skin you want is a pain in the butt. It's this idea that's actually been turning me OFF Guild Wars lately. I spend / waste more time trying to get the skin with the mods I want (try that on a shield you want some fun) then I do actually playing with my friends, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Sry but this is nothing than bullshit

NOBODY needs a req7/8/9 sword. EVERYONE wants it because it's looking COOL. You don't deal more dmg with a req7 sword than with a req13 sword!

And if new/casual players could own a crystalline req8 15^50, WHICH FACT WILL MAKE ME AN HARDCORE PVE-PLAYER ANYMORE?

At the moment you can see if you are hardcore or not when you look at your items. The complete motivation to be "hardcore" will be gone with this change.

Abnaxus · Oct 02, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

Sry but this is nothing than bullshit

NOBODY needs a req7/8/9 sword. EVERYONE wants it because it's looking COOL. You don't deal more dmg with a req7 sword than with a req13 sword!

And if new/casual players could own a crystalline req8 15^50, WHICH FACT WILL MAKE ME AN HARDCORE PVE-PLAYER ANYMORE?

At the moment you can see if you are hardcore or not when you look at your items. The complete motivation to be "hardcore" will be gone with this change.

First of all, moderate the language.

1. It's false that a low req. weapon is equivalent to a high req. one. If you are a hardcore player, you should know that a lower req. allows more flexibility in attribute points spending, it's one of the basic rules you learn in the very first days of playing.
Besides, collector's crafter's and green weapon come already with 9 req. so higher requirement can be accepted only for builds that max out the weapon attribute.
Low req. is not "cool", it's functional.

2. Again false. It's just rethoric to affirm that "new casual players will be able to afford a req. 8 15>50 crystalline" or whatever considered today "high-end".

Just check this page on guru auction:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction...=crysta&=Go%21

The crappiest crystallines are offered (with bids) for not less than 100k, 350k is the offer for a req. 13 +15 stance.
I see very difficult for a new player a) to collect 350k in short time, and b) to spend 350k for a sword that compared to a collector or green one is pure crap statwise.

If today someone is able to sell a purple crystalline +16 while hexed for above 100k, which is currently an unmoddable and utterly crap sword, with the new possibility to make it 15>50 the same seller will ask at least 3-4 times the current price or possibly more.
We'll not see probably today's 10millions weapons, but we'll have more 300-400k weapons on the market. Anyway, 300-400k for a single weapon is not something easily affordable by a newcomer or casual player.

3. If the concept of hardcore player is opening the inventory and look at 1337 weapons, probably GW (which is a skill based and not item based) is the wrong game for you.
I feel myself an hardcore player because I have finished both campaigns with 6 chars, on the way with the 7th, play together with friends and helping them, farm bosses for green drops and so on.
Collecting nice skins is just a small part of my gaming experience, and not the whole game.

I'm favourable to the possibility of upgrading my current weapons, to at least have comparable stats of collectors and green ones, keeping some skins I like.
For instance, I just started an assassin, and so far the most functional daggers I've found are the uber cheap Xuekao. If with the new feature I'll be able to obtain some dragon scythes with at least the same stats and without spending 100k, I'll be a happy man.
Otherwise I'll stick to Xuekao, no problem, it's more important that I'm able to manage my assassin skills than wielding shiny daggers.

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

hahahaha tell me ONE person who is fighting with 7 in weapon mastery. everyone got 9+. NOBODY needs 7-8.

if you want to deal dmg, you got 11-16 in weapon mastery.

arcanemacabre · Oct 02, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Abnaxus, you basically summarized almost all of my posts in this thread. Only thing you missed is when I was talking about how awesome inscriptions will be to all the currently un-modable items such as wands/off-hands/shields. Regardless, kudos for putting it out there, short and sweet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

For instance, I just started an assassin, and so far the most functional daggers I've found are the uber cheap Xuekao. If with the new feature I'll be able to obtain some dragon scythes with at least the same stats and without spending 100k, I'll be a happy man.
Otherwise I'll stick to Xuekao, no problem, it's more important that I'm able to manage my assassin skills than wielding shiny daggers.

Ahh, wish I knew this about a week ago. Just sold gold Dragon Scythes, Req. 9 15^50 for 30k. Quite possibly the best item I've ever had drop for me, and I just sold it off for peanuts. Eh, not that it matters to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

hahahaha tell me ONE person who is fighting with 7 in weapon mastery. everyone got 9+. NOBODY needs 7-8.

if you want to deal dmg, you got 11-16 in weapon mastery.

Not ONE person, but several BUILDS. Anything that uses primarily Tactics and Strength, or for a Ranger, Beast Mastery, Expertise and Wilderness Survival. There are tons of builds with those setups. An assasin probably can't operate without a good chunk of points into DM, unless they're using an axe or bow or something.

Not to mention, if need be, you can pump 12 points into two other atts, and have 3 left over for your weapon. Then simply wear your +1 headpiece, and +3 rune, and you've got 7. Two maxed out stats and enough points to deal a decent amount of damage with your weapon. Pretty nice, and fairly common, considering.

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

greens are out but with this update greens will be dead. the thing anet could change is adding greens with special skins which are not obtainable by common weapons (white,blue,purple,gold).

Abnaxus · Oct 02, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

hahahaha tell me ONE person who is fighting with 7 in weapon mastery. everyone got 9+. NOBODY needs 7-8.
if you want to deal dmg, you got 11-16 in weapon mastery.

A stance tank puts more points in strenght and tactics for instance. And can deal huge damage with ripostes even with minimal points in swordmanship.
An assassin can use only Critical Strikes skills, max out that attribute and Shadow Arts and put the minimum required on daggers.

Anyway, this of low req. is just a technical point, whereas points 2 and 3 of my post are relevant to the discussion.

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

you do not need 15^50 either for tanking. you can use a white req7 sword with +30 or +5 armor mod. you do not need those inherent mods for that.

and for assassin... you lose chances to strike a double hit with low dagger mastery AND you lose chances to strike a critical hit AND you lose basic damage.

an assassin with low dagger mastery is nothing else than a warrior without good armor.

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

Please dont let ourselves be fooled into thinking that player's interest will be renewed with every new chapter like Jeff strain does.

Yet, we are supposed to believe that grinding for the same rare skins will keep the majority of player's interest?

Fickle thy name is gamer.

Cybah, Perfect Golds will still be worth money. (people want Golds, it's not just about the numbers you know). Crystallines will still be expensive.

This will not completely destroy the value of your items...

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

There isn't a "void" between needs and wants now. Anet has Collectors and greens that are either dirt cheap or very affordable. They are there for the "casual gamer" so he doesnt have to grind to get weapons with similar stats as the more hardcore player. Everyone yelling Yay! ... please consider the long term effects if the economy becomes only 2 classes. Either Anet will have to lower the bar even further for the (cough cough) casual gamer group or only the rich will have many of the titles and better armor. Those thinking this won't tank the economy haven't followed the Anet tweaks and the end results to well.

We've gone round and round on this point, but please try to understand why I think you're so wrong on this point.

Obviously, you feel perfect mods are "vanity" items, just the same as FoW armor.

But, you do see the difference, correct? Even the +1 hp between a +29 mod, and a +30 mod is an advantage, albeit a slight one. FoW armor has NO advantage. At all.

So, yes, IF Inscriptions somehow keeps people from getting their FoW armor faster (an argument I don't buy in the first place), I still want Inscriptions to happen.

Why? Because, frankly, in terms of game balance, perfect mods (including perfect inherent mods) are greater than FoW armor.

I've already said that I have no problem with some skins being "un-inscriptable". In fact, I think that would be a good thing for Anet to do, so the minority of players who grind for skins will still be happy. I'm all for people being happy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

The game is to be released in less than a month ... Ms. Gray could throw us a bone on this topic. Anet knows how the system is supposed to work by now. *gasp* Could it be they want us to buy a copy and the truth might cause a few to not!?!?! =p

For once, I agree!

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

if you can upgrade whites with 15^50, believe me, ppl wont want only golds.

and believe me something else: when you got all your items you want, you won't have more fun in guildwars' PVE (except new chapters with new playing features).

sumrtym · Oct 02, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

and believe me something else: when you got all your items you want, you won't have more fun in guildwars' PVE (except new chapters with new playing features).

And the method of grinding away for weeks on end (equivalent gaming hours) and still not getting the skin / stats I want is SOOOOO much fun now.

Nobody even mentions the fact about equipping 100 characters now with heros.

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

if you can upgrade whites with 15^50, believe me, ppl wont want only golds.

The fact people spent 40k (just an example, I don't know current prices) for Ghail's Bone Staff, when you can simply make your own for much less, proves to me people will spend big buck on a Gold item, even if it's the same stats (and skin) as a White!

(and yes, I agree that's crazy. But then again, I think farming skins is crazy, too, so what do I know?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

and believe me something else: when you got all your items you want, you won't have more fun in guildwars' PVE (except new chapters with new playing features).

Sorry, you're wrong. You and enjoy different parts if this game.

I will never, ever, grind for something as silly as a skin!

Since I'm a casual player, there is always a quest to do, an Elite to cap, a Chapter to explore.

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Mordokai:

you cannot change or dye greens therefore you cant compare those imho.

edit: oh and there are no beautiful greens: cryst, dwarven, iridescent, eternal, zodiac, ........ and so on

I won't play gw with ugly characters and items. would be no fun for me. i could play wow instead then

(ugly too)

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybah

Mordokai:

you cannot change or dye greens therefore you cant compare those imho.

edit: oh and there are no beautiful greens: cryst, dwarven, iridescent, eternal, zodiac, ........ and so on

I won't play gw with ugly characters and items. would be no fun for me. i could play wow instead then

(ugly too)

Then it even makes less sense why Ghail's staff would go for more than a Collector's Death staff + mods... same skin and you can't dye it!

Just reinforces my point: people pay more for "color." (Color being Golds and Greens, not dyes!)

leprekan · Oct 02, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

We've gone round and round on this point, but please try to understand why I think you're so wrong on this point.

Obviously, you feel perfect mods are "vanity" items, just the same as FoW armor.

But, you do see the difference, correct? Even the +1 hp between a +29 mod, and a +30 mod is an advantage, albeit a slight one. FoW armor has NO advantage. At all.

So, yes, IF Inscriptions somehow keeps people from getting their FoW armor faster (an argument I don't buy in the first place), I still want Inscriptions to happen.

Why? Because, frankly, in terms of game balance, perfect mods (including perfect inherent mods) are greater than FoW armor.

I've already said that I have no problem with some skins being "un-inscriptable". In fact, I think that would be a good thing for Anet to do, so the minority of players who grind for skins will still be happy. I'm all for people being happy...

You are saying this update is not only good but needed for the 1hp factor? Sorry 1hp is hardly a competitive edge. If I am down to 1hp a monk with infuse health is going to save me not the 1hp. I agree FoW armor is not needed then again neither is 1hp. The perfect upgrades having a decent value makes it a lot easier for those wanting to buy fow or titles that cost millions. Sorry Charlie but you can't debate that away. Farming all FoW materials takes a VERY long time (something the casual gamer doesn't want to invest).

What you are saying is that the poor (yourself included) don't want or need to be able to make enough gold to get many of the titles. Those of us that have been around for every Anet attempt at tweaking the economy know what happens ... they kill what they tried to tweak. Upgrades are one of the last things available for people to make an easy 20-40k take that away for the short term whiners and you have 2 classes. Stop looking at the short term WOW that would be great for ME. Look 3 months into the chapter when the market is flooded and perfect mods are 1k and less than perfect mods go straight to merch. I like EVERYONE I know has a mule full of perfects waiting to be salvaged. This is going to tank the economy end of story.

Two April Mornings · Oct 02, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

^sword pommel + 30 4 months ago = 100k
now = 30ish K

15^50 mod when this option comes out ~100k(estimate based on the fact that 15^50 is a lot less rare but that people will try to sell them relatively high)

15^50 mod in 3-4 months---mgiht be as low as 10-15k

Cybah · Oct 02, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

ghails staff is with +1 death magic isnt it? +1 death wrapping is expansive as hell and hard to get.

if it wasnt, I would prefer the blue collector's over ghails.